So, I’ve been having these waves of conversations about ‘cheating’. He cheated on her. She cheated on him. Someone has a not so open, open relationship, and the ones who’ve professed monogamy for life are all in hell for one reason or another.
I don’t often give advice, but I’m going to do it.
There are very few people in this world who don’t experience some level of biological jealousy. Even if they know they shouldn’t. Even if it’s not part of the agreement. Even if there’s nothing to be jealous about, there are very few people who want the fact that you are fucking someone else and liking it rubbed in their faces. And the few who really like it… well, they’re deeply kinky.
Somewhere deep in most people’s hearts lies the forlorn belief that they alone SHOULD BE ENOUGH for the person they are in love with. Consequently, they keep getting hurt. Because no one, alone, is ever enough for anyone else. And even if no one strays physically, they’ll stray mentally, or cyberwise, or whatever other way their guilt ridden brains can manage it.
And why should any single person be enough? For god’s sake, there’s almost seven billion of us on the planet! If you calmly consider the statistics and still maintain that you, alone, should be enough, then I’m sorry, but your deluded.
Now me? I’ve always been pretty Victorian. By that I mean that I have a deep belief in politeness. If you love someone, be polite. Don’t rub their faces in stuff that is going to conflict them for no reason. I’m not saying you should lie. I’m not saying you should deny all when confronted, but you know, practice a little self containment. Take responsibility for your own behaviour and keep your escapades to yourself. Sometimes ‘sharing’ isn’t as generous as it sounds. Sometimes it’s just downright impolite.
Now obviously, I’m not referring here to people in poly arrangements or people who have an agreement that anything goes. But my experience is that those relationships are few and far between. Most people try to be realistic about monogamy – they don’t outright demand it – but they end up getting hurt because someone feels they have to ‘come clean’.
The other thing is… please don’t confess by being careless about clues. If you’re going to venture into the great, fleshly beyond, for god’s sake don’t use a joint credit card where two hotel breakfasts can show up on the bill. Yes, I know people swear they don’t do this sort of thing on purpose, but I have my doubts.
Here’s the deal, if your infidelity is hanging out all over the place, my guess is you are looking to get caught. Either because you want the attention or because you want to precipitate the end of your relationship. Or you’re stupid. And stupid people really do annoy me gravely.
Ultimately, if you are in any kind of a long term relationship, this is going to come up. The question is… are you going to let a slip of the libido ruin your relationship?
I don’t think trust is really about where people put their penises. Although it might be about what they wear on them when they put them about. If physical exclusivity is the deal-breaker for your relationship, you’re shopping for misery.
And that’s my Saturday sermon done and dusted.
What’s your take on this?
I love your thoughts on this and pretty much agree with you on the matter.
My take? To each their own. Live life in a way that suits you, and don’t try to understand or tell others what to do. No matter what you name your moral high-horse, or how pretty it sounds, riding one only guarantees one thing – someone’s going to want to knock your ass off. And, really, what’s the fucking point?
I’ve enjoyed many relationships, and have had many experiences. I’ve been an ass and I’ve been a saint. Like most people. What’s worked for me, or hasn’t has no bearing on what works for others. What I need isn’t what you need. What makes me happy, may make you miserable. Who the fuck am I to tell anyone the best way to carry on in their private affairs, whether banking, or sexual or anything else?
That’s the extent of my wisdom. It boils down to no longer feeling any desire or compunction to judge others, or try to convince them to see things my way. By the same token, I’d like others to give me the same consideration. And, those who don’t? Those who insist on trying to convince me their way is the best way, or the only way or the RIGHT way, well…they can go fuck themselves in some remote corner far, far away from me.
So, cheat, don’t cheat, be monogamous or not, poly, kinky, insecure, self-possessed, a braggart, mean-spirited, or whatever the fuck floats your boat. And, while you do whatever you like, I’ll be over here tending to my own business, working out my own shit with the people in my life.
Wow, Zander… for someone who doesn’t have an opinion on it, you sound pretty upset about the whole thing. At least that is what your language reads like to me. Perhaps I’m misreading.
And… Yes, I do have an opinion and I’ve given it. That certainly doesn’t mean you have to agree with it. You’re welcome to dismiss it as total crap. But I retain my right to hold it – and to voice it. Especially when I’m asked.
It’s as easy to misread, as it is to offer opinions.
Indeed it is. And, of course, it does afford a certain human engagement to be able to be wrong and keep apologizing. So, I apologize for misreading.
Your philosophy reminds me of a Savage Garden song:
“I believe you can’t control or choose your sexuality
I believe that trust is more important than monogamy”
Are you talking about cheating in or out of marriage? I remember some anonymous guy in Esquire or some awful magazine like it wrote about how he cheated all the time. But then at the end he said he was single. As a married person, I almost laugh when single people talk about “cheating”.
I see married people getting caught in affairs left and right. I do wonder whether they are intentionally risking everything. Maybe it’s the easy way out. On the other hand, they almost always have an affair with someone in the workplace and that’s going to make it much more likely that they are found out.
It’s a tough one because we seem to be driven to stray and also driven to be possessive.
I’m really talking about any infidelity in a relationship where there is no outright agreement to have an open relationship. I don’t think long term commonlaw relationships are any different from a marriage.
I’ve always been planted firmly in the no-physical cheating allowed camp, although this is the best argument I’ve ever read to the contrary. Not sure if I’m really a convert, since a lie by omission is still a lie. If you have an agreement to monogamy, you should be able to tell the other person after, if not before, and deal with the consequences. Besides, the plan outlined above just encourages us to keep polling ‘Have you cheated now!?’ since they won’t lie outright, supposedly.
That said, my husband knows that if he is ever interested in sex elsewhere, I am open to it as either a threesome or just a sanctioned affair, but I want to discuss in advance. Plus he can go to strip clubs, look at porn, flirt and all that to his heart’s content. Even things that would be considered emotional affairs to some people. I think the only person not satisfied by all that is someone getting off on the deception/illicit-factor… But that’s why I’m not okay with cheating.
If you think I’m saying cheating is okay when two people have undertaken to be monogamous, then either I have expressed myself badly, or you have misread me. But I don’t think, for instance, that all the people who are gay and currently serving in the military are lying because they aren’t volunteering the information.
I guess what I’m saying is – in light of the statistics on incidence of infidelity in relationships that aim to be monogamous (anywhere between 30 – 48%) – you might hope it will never happen, but there is a considerable chance that it will.
So the question becomes: how do you behave if it does happen, and do you allow it to become the cause of your relationship’s demise?
No, I definitely misread that. Actually, I just don’t understand. It did sound to me as if you were saying that if you cheat, you should just keep it quiet, so as not to disrupt the presumably-monogamous-but-otherwise-good relationship. Instead, were you suggesting that people should cultivate open relationships in advance, so that this behavior would be considered acceptable?
As for what to do if/when it happens (despite having an agreement to be monogamous) – well, that’s going to depend on a lot of things but I don’t think there is a yes/no answer. Mostly it’s how you feel. If you feel okay or even hurt, then maybe you can move past it. If you’re going to feel resentful and not be able to have a healthy, equal relationship after that, then you’re better off ending it.
That bit about two breakfasts on the credit card got me thinking. Isn’t part of the fun or excitement of “cheating” the risk that you will be found out? Isn’t it like that idea that people go to motor races to see the crashes, go to boxing matches to see someone getting pulverised or even killed — even if we can’t or won’t acknowledge this openly? I put “cheating” in quotes because it is an “illicit” activity, something forbidden, something that we “ought” not to do, and we recognise that we are then flouting societal rules and norms. An Id/Superego conflict? Or am I just being too Freudian?
I’m not sure the risk-taking behavior of having stuff show up on your credit cards equates to going to motor car races to see the crash unless, of course, you’re driving. It’s definitely risk-taking behaviour. But I’d guess that most people who indulge in risk-taking behaviour are acting self-destructively – even if they aren’t conscious of it. I’m not well versed enough in Freudian theory to answer your question. But from the perspective of relationships, it really is some times the most damaging behaviour of all because it’s not just deceptive – it’s carelessly deceptive.
“…don’t use a joint credit card where two hotel breakfasts can show up on the bill. Yes, I know people swear they don’t do this sort of thing on purpose, but I have my doubts.”
I would believe them, up to a point. Obviously, using a joint credit card is very stupid, and there’s a good chance of discovery. Consciously, people think that they don’t do it on purpose, and say they don’t understand why they did. But, within the psyche lurks the spectre of the “Dark Shadow”, our opposite, the “baddie” within us. The Dark Shadow can act subconsciously, making us to things that are stupid. I think you have a very good example of this here — where we know we have been doing something “illicit”, something that we consciously know to be “illicit”, where consciously we don’t want to be discovered, but our Dark Shadow trips us up — and makes us unaware of what we have done, so we say “we didn’t do it on purpose” and believe this. Yet we did do it on purpose, even though we weren’t consciously aware of what we did — almost as if the Superego (as conscience) was getting its revenge on the Id (for its pleasure). (Apologies for the mishmash of Freud and Jung here.)
I don’t know if physical infidelity is a complete deal-breaker but it is an issue for me. I can be forgiving or unrelenting… but I think it would depend on the situation. Is he cheating because he thinks he loves her or because he needed a quick physical fix?
The first is a deal-breaker, the second is probably just a fight, but I wouldn’t really know without experiencing it.
E
My partner stepping out on me is not a deal breaker. I feel that when you love someone, you try an be respectful to their being and who they are inherently. And if they aren’t inherently monogamous, well then, you talk about it and come to some agreement.
What is a definite deal breaker for me is dishonesty and sneaking around. If I would find out that my guy has been fucking around, or having a long term affair, then I’m done. That to me is a huge betrayal. Him wanting to have sex or a relationship with someone else is not a betrayal, the lying is. This is mainly because I just don’t see the point to be in a relationship with someone if they don’t trust me enough to share who they really are with me. And if there’s an atmosphere within the relationship that things like this cannot be shared or discussed, then what’s the point to be together? Just be alone and fuck all and as many people as you want. At least if I know what’s going on, I’m making the choice to be with my partner knowing everything.
Also, my past experience has taught me that people who like to cheat, don’t tolerate it when their partner decides to step out as well. If people want to step out, go ahead, but give your partner the same rights and don’t be getting all indignant about it like you’ve been betrayed and shitted on.
Even in the best marriages/long term relationships, the chances of someone or both people making a misstep somewhere along the line are high, I think. To walk away from a loving relationship because of that seems a rather narrow minded and even gutless thing to do. If you are soul partners, you forgive, recognize what went wrong and hopefully drive on understanding one another’s needs better. At least, this is my experience.
RG, I think I am agreeing with you. I have a few points I want to amplify with my own bloated opinions if I may.
The problem with trying to make any blanket statements about “cheating” is that people’s motivations to cross the boundaries of their relationships are wildly varied. In my opinion, the sex that happens is almost always secondary to, or symptomatic of, other issues — some of which pose great threats to the primary relationship and some which don’t.
While monogamous and on my moral high horse for 17 years, I judged many people, and sort of lumped together people who “cheat” as selfish, dishonest and greedy. My first serious relationship ended when I walked in on my lover in bed with someone else; I was devastated. Years later, we reconciled and made peace and I came to understand her reasons for having sex outside the relationship were complex and had little to do with me. Years later, I perpetrated my own infidelity while still married, and as I usually do, I talked about it alot, to alot of people. I learned how many people in my own circle had done or were doing or considering the same thing. One common thread of motivation I found was a lack of intimacy (physical, emotional, creative, intellectual). This doesn’t forgive people for lying, but for me, it mitigates the “crime.”
So, consider this: Some people cheat because they are desperately unhappy and not getting their needs met. Some people “cheat” because they made agreements they can’t really keep, they caved into societal mores against their own nonmonogamous natures. Some people “cheat” because they were abused as children and the notion of secrecy is inexorably twined with their sexuality. Some people “cheat” because substance abuse impairs their judgment. Some people “cheat” to lash out at their partners, passively and/or aggressively. Some people “cheat” because they lack empathy to care if they hurt someone by disrespecting their agreement. Those are just some of the reasons I know about from my own circles. There must be so many more.
There is one opinion on which I am unmovable: Infidelity, is not, by far, the worst thing that one person can do to another in a marriage. The road to the hell for cheaters is strewn with broken hearts, emotionally abandoned or abused husbands and wives desperate for attention and connection, who seek to get their needs filled without giving up their families, disrupting their children’s lives.
So deciding if an affair ends your marriage is between the two people in it, and is really complex and based on the motivation. For some, an open marriage works. For others, therapy to resolve childhood trauma. For others, a decision to work on repairing the broken intimacy, or letting go and moving on. For some, deciding to live with the sociopath who won’t open the marriage or be faithful or honest, but the children need a father/mother so they stay.
As for whether or not to tell, I do not always believe honesty is the best policy. This does not mean I condone lying. I just mean, if you strayed, don’t seek to absolve yourself by confession to the person you wronged. It causes unnecessary pain; it shifts the hot coal of the problem from you to the other person. You had the hot sex, and you hand the miserable guilt to the person who was home watching the kids or busy at work, and you want a medal for your after-the-fact honesty? Uh, no.
If what you did was outside the terms of your agreement, work on your issues, and work on the agreement. You don’t like the rules? Change the rules or leave the relationship. In short, do what you say you are going to do. It’s not that difficult.
With some frequency, I have friends talk to me about affairs, real or potential, and what to do. I don’t judge them any more. I help them do the math to get their needs met, take care of their families, live with themselves in their own integrity, and learn and grow as human beings.
As for leaving huge clues, I think there are two main types for this behavior: Sociopaths who believe they are so magical no one will ever notice what they are up to, and passive-aggressive betas who are so afraid to look their partners in the eye and say “I’m not getting my needs met, let’s talk” and they really do, subconsciously, hope to be caught, so everything explodes, and they escape. Either way, it is bad form.
I have been the other woman, I have fucked the other woman, I have fucked the other man, and I have been the cuckold. Not one of those positions is something I would do ever again. That said, I have a monogamous nature and am jealous and possessive, so polyamory would never work for me. I don’t pretend to have all or any answers for anyone else. How can we? I think what we have to do first is be honest with ourselves about what our sexual needs are, and then be honest with a partner about establishing boundaries we can both live with.
End of (mostly agreeable, I think) rant.
Never mind what I said. You nailed it.
Great stuff.
My only quibble is the idea that one partner can just say “Hey, I would like to have sex with other people. Let’s talk.”
As RG said, it’s hard to believe one person is enough for everyone out there. And somebody married with children is not in a position to start negotiating the rules of the game.
Beautifully articulated & presented. x
Absolutely fantastic. I needed to read that.
A lot of folks appear to be sorting thru what the primary meaning of this post is and why that meaning is important. I do not think that meaning is, “To Cheat; Or, Not To Cheat: That is the obfuscation. Whether ’tis nobler in what’s mine to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fornication; or to take arms against a sea of couples, and by opposing, fuck them.” … (Okay, sorry, but I couldn’t resist the opportunity to render out some twisted Shakespeare.) Neither do I think the point lies in whether it is okay to cheat, or whether there are certain ethical parameters and moral boundaries for this behavior, nor in the immutable human nature that makes us sexual creatures.
I think the point lies more in the adjunct behaviors associated with Cheating and why they are MORE important than the actual act of cheating on your partner. As this post mentions, there are some people who use the act as a way to, either consciously or unconsciously, betray and insult the person who they are cheating on. It’s one thing if you are just plain stupid about it. (And stupid people deserve whatever karma beating they get, IMO.) It’s another if you are smart enough to know that your behaviors and actions are of the pernicious kind. By deferring responsibility onto your partner and forcing her to react, whatever the objective and/or effect may be, the behavior qualifies as totally indecorous. The level of disrespect, extending beyond “infidelity,” is what matters in my opinion. It is this manner of Cheating that I find unacceptable and grounds for castration, aka alimony.
I accept the reality that there may be an occasion when my partner will let his libido slip. There also may be an occasion when I let mine. As long as we remain loving and respectful of one-another, maintaining the relationship will not hinge on monogamy or an ecclesiastical honesty. It hinges on how much value she places on how her actions affect her partner and vice versa.
And that is my testimonial apropos of your Saturday Sermon, RG. Can’t wait to get it on in Vegas! *wink ~Gidgie
The problem with anybody wanting their partner to be upfront about their desire to stray is that it has a 99.99% chance of ending the relationship. And will you find many new partners if you talk about your interest in an open relationship?
I think the main point of the OP is that there is no need to “confess” over some minor dalliance. Unless you truly are out of love or you just constantly look elsewhere. Assuming you are in love and/or are happy together, what is the point of coming clean???
No relationship could survive complete honesty.
”No relationship could survive complete honesty”? this makes me feel deeply sad, I am completely honest in my relationships, I offer myself fully with all that means, if I don’t, then I am by default lying to the people I’m in relationship with by witholding the truth of who I am from them; that, to me, is the foundation for deceit, lack of integrity and a relationship doomed to failure, without honesty there is no truth or authenticity, integrity or intimacy and therefore no relationship.
Well done, RG. I agree with your thoughts entirel, and really understand where you’re coming from.
I’ve been married now for a very long time. I am as totally in love with my darling as I was the day we met. Even so – a girl can daydream and it’s quite natural and healthy to do so.
While I’d never physically cheat, it’s okay IMO to ‘fancy’ other men – just keep those thoughts to yourself in case they cause pain you tour partner..
I agree with RG on the origianal premise of this post. Damned few people successfullly pull off the open relationship thing and I am not sure it is a solution to the underlying problem. It certainly is a way for people absolve themselves of the consequences of their dalliances, anytime you are getting satisfaction from someone other than me, I am going to feel less because of it.
Someone once discussed this subject with me and said that what they did outside of their marriage didn’t cost their partner anything. They were not taking time away, and were not holding back on any sexuality, in essence, everything they gave outside of the relationship was “excess, extra”. I am not sure about that, I understand the point of view and I think there is some validity to it but I think the at home partner always know, something, feels something, senses something.
So, if you are going to cheat, do it in a way that is totally invisiible, don’t all of a sudden start “playing poker with the boys on Saturday night”.
This is a very big subject and ultimately leads to openness/compersion as the answer. However, I think most mere mortals who are presented with the notion that their partner is getting satisfied outside the relationship by others has to wonder where they are lacking. And when every one is special, how am I special?
Recognizing that while sex is important, even if you have sex every day for 2 hours each day, that is less than 10% of your time. Surely the other 90% of your relationship is just as important and certainly worth cherishing, protecting and living with your chosen partner. As RG said, “there are very few people who want the fact that you are fucking someone else and liking it rubbed in their faces”, so, keep your dalliance to yourself and don’t try to salve your shame at the expense of the self esteem and self worth of your partner.
I have a great deal of trouble understanding this conversation. I’ve been in an open relationship for a number of years now, so I know that I am unusual. I’m more introverted than most, so I’m as likely to suffer from too much as too little time with others. Admittedly, I’ve even occasionally “enjoyed having my face rubbed in it” (in the right times and contexts, etc), which makes me kinky. But I just don’t understand why it is supposed to be harder than non-open ones. Hard, certainly, because all intimate relationships are hard, and most end in failure (especially if you count non-marriage relationships). But I don’t understand why it is harder.
Maybe I just don’t feel things that others feel, like I have some sort of emotional sensation loss. I don’t feel diminished if my lover gets satisfaction from someone else. The idea seems a bit perverse, actually. I don’t feel small when my friends or family have fun, or get companionship, or earn money, or eat with someone else. Lonely, perhaps. Jealous of their attention, sometimes even excluded. But those feelings are when I lose cherished things that I had. To be able to be lessened just by the fact someone you love loves someone else as well seems a horrific vulnerability. I’m not sure how I could stand it.
I can understand the desire to be enough for your partner. But for me, enough in the sense that you have enough money, or enough food, not in the sense that you’ve had enough at a feast and can have no more. Enough as sufficiency, able to support your partner. But who wants to live on what suffices alone?
I loved this post, not least as it’s trying to talk honestly about an issue I don’t ever see discussed, here in America. There’s so much talk of marriage, and values within marriage, all within this circus ring of hypocrisy. Meanwhile, I’m not seeing a lot of people talking about what it really takes to make a marriage work, or why it’s okay if relationships are complicated.
I think that’s the big problem, the idea of “complications.” There seems to be this mistaken connection between love and simplicity: “If you love me, things will be simple between us.” But love is the sort of powerful emotion that makes nothing simple, and so often love is part and parcel to less noble emotions, such as possessiveness or a desire to dominate.
I see so many people lie to themselves, especially, I think, women. Or maybe it’s just that women discuss these issues with me more, but men are equally apt to delude themselves. I never know how to react when a woman gets involved with someone she knows is complicated, whom she likes because he’s complicated, and then expects him to become simple once they make a commitment to each other. As a complicated person, myself, I’m seeing more and more that I’m never going to be able to shed my complications like a skin, and wake up simple. So how can I expect someone else to do the same?
So I think what I’m saying is that while you’re talking about a person’s responsibility to be honest, or not, with their partner, I think there’s also a responsibility for people to be honest, or not, with themselves. In other words, don’t be surprised when the man-eater eats the man. And if someone does insist on being surprised, maybe they need to be a bit more honest with themselves.
Neko Case said it better, of course, in the following song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXl870NoF4E.
Problem with cheating is people have different ideas of qualifys as cheating. Some will get angry when they lovers gase is caught the cleavage or firm buttocks of another. Then at the other end of the scale is the “open relationship” fuck whoever whenever.
Given that we all sit somewhere on this long and probably unbalanced scale the problem of fidelity often seems to be when our actions lie in the gap between that we feel we can getaway with and our partners expectation of fidelity.
Personally i take the view she can fool around with anyone she likes as long as she keeps it safe and doesnt delude the fling they anything more than a quick release. But I have complete faith in her love for me and and wise(or foolish) enough to know a fleeting lust will not compete our long-lasting love. Then again the more I think about it the more I think I might just be “deeply kinky”. I can live with that and I guess she can to.
I’ve noticed a thread in the comments and your post RG that coming out and being honest with a partner about stepping out is a way to absolve some shame.
I guess what pushes my buttons in a lot about this issue is the fact that being non monogamous is a negative value. I mean, why should people feel shame about desiring and wanting to explore with people outside of their main relationship? Why is that so awful?
If we as humans and as part of societies would be honest about the fact that we are not all naturally monogamous and that for some people it’s really going against their nature to try and fit into the collectively decided norm, then maybe it wouldn’t be such a big deal. It certainly would cut out all those negative feelings that the cheater has and which gets put on the partner ultimately. It would definitely take the charge out of cheating for the thrill factor. And the partner would maybe be able to accept that aspect of their partner as they would any other personality trait that gets accepted if it were normal.
I’m pipe dreaming though. This is something so ingrained in the human psyche that it would take eons to let it go.
If I implied that being in a non-monogamous relationship is negative, that was not at all my intention, because I’m neutral on the subject. However, I think that within our society (and many others) monogamy has been held up as an aspirational ideal for so long that the positive values of it are embedded into the very fabric of our language. Can you think of a semiotically positive word for practicing infidelity?
I think it is very unrealistic to think that the vast majority of people are going to be able to easily escape thousands of years of cultural conditioning. Open relationships are still non-normative and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. People who have sex with people other than their primary romantic partner are still going to feel vestiges of guilt. And most people who are ‘cuckolded’ are still going to feel that the incident signifies their partner loves them or desires them less.
So my argument here was to try to argue for a lessening of the damage that acting against our acculturation can do. I guess I’m proposing an alternative model for a relationship that isn’t precisely an open one, but is also realistic that our cultural aspirations are, for some, impossible to live up to.
What I’m finding ironic is the assumption of my stance on this. The truth is that the last time I agreed to a monogamous relationship, I was 22. Since that time, I have openly and steadfastly refused to promise to be ‘faithful’ to anyone. But that has, often, been on principle only, since in reality, I found that – and this is entirely personal – I’m rarely attracted to other in any serious way when I’ve been in love. I have seldom exercised the freedom I’ve always demanded, because I’m just not interested. But feeling ‘trapped’ triggers a fight or flight reaction in me.
Heh, RG, I’m sorry if you felt my comment was to you personally on that. I know I addressed you and others, but I also knew that your comment about absolving shame is a general one about the status quo in society and not your personal opinion.
I just see it often. While I hate the dishonesty around cheating, I’d rather people who just were who they were didn’t feel shame about that. Nothing to you personally. Just a general comment and questioning of the status quo.
And you’re the last person I’d ever take as someone who really had any judgment one way or the other on this issue.
Personally, I’m all about people having freedom in relationships. And I think it’s a complex issue because I’m a bit like you. When I’m with someone, I rarely have a real urge to step out of that. I might fantasize about others, but I usually don’t act on it. And like you, the feeling of being trapped and maybe not being able to explore with someone with whom I have some intense energy, kept me from really settling down with someone for most of my adult life.
However, I’m currently in a long term monogamous relationship with someone and I have been in love with someone else as well for the last couple of years. But all parties know what’s going on and I choose to stick with my partner and not step out. It’s the first time in my life that I don’t feel like I’m sacrificing something of who I am to be monogamous with my partner and I don’t feel trapped. It’s something new I’m experiencing and having acceptance from my husband and the other party has made me much happier around everyone.
Like Wyeth above, I’ve been in every position. I know it from all angles and still it pushes me on many levels. So I have a tendency to fight for all sides of the equation just to be contrary. And because I can see all sides of it.
I have no illusions that this is something that will ever change in humans. However, it’s nice to know that there are people who do manage and feel OK.
My take? I think cheating happens and I think sometimes it is excusable. Sometimes it is necessary to maintain a relationship. And I agree 100% on everything you say about hiding indiscretions; rubbing it in your partner’s face, or leaving little clues (which I have had done to me) is really the worst form of cowardice.
I too think it’s unrealistic to believe that you are ever going to be enough for someone. I would like the world to change enough that monogamy wasn’t always implicitly implied; monogamy is fucking hard and if you are embarking on a relationship it really should be one of many options you agree on. No relationship should be based on an assumption.
And, even if you do agree to be monogamous you at least have to make your peace, or find some way to deal with the fact that occasionally your partner/spouse is going to want someone else. And hopefully, you’ll know you can trust them not to act on that impulse. On the other side of that, you also have to contain your own desire.
I wish so much that jealousy wasn’t so deeply ingrained in me; I wish I had the capacity to be in an open relationship. But I don’t, and I’m not sure I ever will. So my next best hope is that I raise children who see polyamorous relationships as equal to monogamous relationships. With lots of grey area in between to choose from.
I have to agree with Lady Grinning Soul the most out of these follow up posts.
RG you have pointed out some very good points.
No one will ever be enough for their partner in every aspect of their life. Having said that I am much too jealous a woman to share what I consider mine. My husband & I have discussed the variety of avenues but it all boils down to us both being unable to deal with those avenues with no jealousy. Which makes it a deal breaker.
I have told my husband in the past that it would be a deal breaker. Should this situation ever arise I may have to re-assess however it’s not an ok option for me in my relationship however I do my best to not judge those who do.
Another thought provoking read! 🙂
Thanks!
In my entire life, I have never considered anyone ‘mine’. Never. I don’t think I can even conceptualize it properly.
I think I’ve been sexually jealous twice in my whole life, but I have been hurt when someone has made a choice to apportion their time in a way that preferences someone else. But then I force myself to think it through – you cannot compel desire or affection in someone else.
And I myself am so prone to packing up and leaving a country if I feel I’m being smothered, I just assume other people feel the same.
This might explain my very odd domestic set-up.
As usual, I agree with you, and I have a few further thoughts. Relationships, including marriage, are contracts–I promise to do this and you promise to do that. They cannot endure for long unless they are mutually beneficial. Honesty and politeness are positives. My wife and I have had an open marriage for 15 of our 20 years and it works for both of us. Jealousy certainly crops up and ignoring your primary when the excitement of a new love comes along can lead to that. Sooner or later all relationships end, by death if nothing else. Try to enjoy each other for as long as possible. The terms of the contract should be clear so there are no misunderstandings. Oh, and you really never come together until your spouse holds the bucket while you sit on the toilet squirting at both ends, knowing it will be you in a few days. Happy loving.
I too have a problem about the use of the term ‘faithful’. Years ago i was in a relationship and asked if I would be faithful. I was in love with the woman – or infatuated since I had only known her for three months and it was too early to judge ‘love’. i said to her that when I felt like that, the idea of going with another woman was out of the question, let alone a temptation to be resisted because I had to be faithful. I re-iterated that I only wanted to be with her, but she seemed upset by this response.
It got even worse when I said that I would prefer it if she wanted to be with someone to do whatever she wanted rather than deny herself out of the need to be ‘faithful’ to me. All hell broke loose. It got worse when I asked how many men had promised to be ‘faithful’ to her and kept their promise. The answer was ‘lots and none’. when I told her to maybe try someone who never promised but always was she told me to leave. our relationship never recovered and was over in a week. not only was I distraught as usual, I was confused. so much for honesty.
If physical exclusivity is the deal-breaker for your relationship, you’re shopping for misery.
That ones a bit harsh in my book. I feel like its kind of blaming the “victim”. I was married for ten years and the deal breaker was clear and spoken about and it was broken and the marriage ended. I dont feel like I was shopping for misery. I feel like I was GIVING my trust to someone. I chose to withdraw that trust after the break of what I saw was a sacred bond. Sacred bonds are part of the vista and are not to be looked down apon in my opinion. I have a right to ask my partner to be sexually exclusive and the right to choose to discontinue the relationship if the agreement is broken in a nontrustworthy way. I dont believe this makes me “shopping for misery”.
I don’t think that sleeping with someone is ‘victimizing’ anyone, so I don’t agree with your analogy. Moreover, it offends me because implicit in it is a subtext of associating infidelity with rape (a trauma after which the victim has often, historically, been blamed). And although I agree that infidelity may deeply hurt a person who has an expectation that their partner will be monogamous, it bears no relation at all to rape.
And I’m sorry, but demanding monogamy off someone is not, in my view, giving anyone anything. It’s requiring them them to be physically exclusive to you. I am not saying people don’t have the right to do this. I’m saying that, statistically speaking, there is a good chance that things will not work out as hoped for. And therefore there is also a good chance that one will be disappointed with their partner’s behaviour.
As far as monogamy being a ‘sacred trust’, I have no idea what that means. Sacred. This mystification of sexuality is, in my opinion (and not necessarily anyone else’s) at the root of a great deal of over-emphasis, false expectation, and deep disappointment.
Of course, you have the right to ask anything of your partner. And you have the right to break it off if they don’t comply. No one is trying to take away your right to act in any way you please.
I have an opinion. You do not share it. I believe this means that your expectations may lead to you being disappointed. You do not have to agree with me.
Do not confuse my holding a different opinion for yours for my desire to curtail your rights to do or believe anything you want.
I guess it depends where your standing on whether someone might feel like they are a victim. Victim is such a hot topic word and perhaps just should be stricken from use as it seems to not really help any situation .
For me I felt betrayed. Betrayal feels like the bad end of the stick. I felt like I was the victim of a betrayal of trust. There was no mention of sex without consent in my post so I dont really follow how it has to do with rape. The people who I feel betrayed me had sex. That is not the end of the world I agree, noone can be owned ( well not completely however hard they try to be, in my opinion, whole other issue ) .
From my point of view it has to do with a promise. Promises are something that some people dont believe in. Thats totally okay with me. In this case there was a promise. I was discussing it today with a friend and we spoke about “negotiation” being how we see it. To me the way this particular situation panned out in my life was more to do with a lack of negotiation and acknowledgement of the relationship beyond the areas of sexuality than to do with an act .
I guess I also dont believe that being disappointed is necessarily the end of the world either. Disappointments in relationships are pretty normal. People are fallible and complex. Avoiding disappointments may perhaps be a form of relationship.
Of course I dont think your “curtailing” me. I was offering a different perspective after reading all the other responses and your post. As for the use of the word sacred , your response kind of makes me feel like thats a no go area of discussion in relation to sexuality? The spiritual and sex? Anyway. Good post . Sorry if I pissed you off in some way?
Having been married for 20 years + and exploring the ups and downs of monogomy and polyamory, swinging, etc. all I can say is that life and relationships are complicated. People change and they change at different times and at different rates. The best you can do is try to roll with what’s happening, be open when open is called for and sometimes keep your mouth shut too. I try very hard to do unto my partner what I would have done unto myself but sometimes I just feel like saying fuck it, I just want to do what I want to do. Thankfully, most of the time, I’m not such a heartless biatch and most of the time, neither is he. The “most of the time” is what gets us through.
Also, having children greatly impacts this whole thing – sometimes making wanting to be with someone other than your partner that much more urgent, sometimes making it seem like the stupidest idea in the whole world.
The only person I’m ”enough” for is myself, the only person I can take full control over is myself, the only person I can fully live with integrity for is myself – & I have pretty high standards of myself.
I’m a believer in honesty, truth, authenticity, intimacy, love and no, it’s not always the easy route, for me. It’s been a road fraught with cavernous potholes at times, but, at other times it’s nurtured and nourished self enquiry, growth and emotional expansion I never thought possible.
I am and will be honest, and more importantly in my mind forthcoming with that honesty, in my intimate relationships, that is all I can promise another and it’s all I can ask for from another – any more than that we deal with as/when/if it arises, hopefully with love for ourselves and each other.
I can’t judge others, I know too well the deeply painful & unfathomable intricacies of such situations.
Kisses and hugs to you, RG, thank you for the forum for discussion of this issue, one that I’d like to see held openly more often in the light of day….. xxx
From Written On the Body by Jeanette Winterson
“I used to think of marriage as a plate-glass window just begging for a
brick. The self-exhibition, the self-satisfaction, smarmimess, tightness,
tight-arsedness.
When I say “I will be true to you” I must mean it in spite of the
formalities, instead of the formalities. If I commit adultery in my heart
then I have lost you a little. The bright vision of your face will blur. I
may not notice this once or twice, I may pride myself on having enjoyed
those fleshy excursions in the most cerebral way. Yet I wil have blunted
that sharp flint that sparks between us, our desire for another above all
else.
Written on the body is a secret code only visible in certain lights: the
accumulations of a lifetime gather there. In places the palimpsest is so
heavily worked that the letters feel like braille.”
RG, I totally agree with your take on being discreet and not being flagrant with activities that will hurt ones partner. There is no good reason to grab the face of a partner (be it a formal or informal relationship) and grind his or her face in the fact of outside dalliances.
What interests me about cheaters is not the greed, if it exists. Or the boredom, discontent of any other reason why they cheated. What grabs me is what comes once the truth is out.
Does the person have the gumption and strength to admit why he/she cheated? Does the sinner now wash him/herself clean and become an honest saint?
To make a change, if need be and not be a cheater anymore.
It is harder to step out of the safety net of a primary relationship than some of us may think. I would prefer to see such a person step away from that net however, than to be in a partnership of sneaking about, whispers and swallowed pride.
We are culturally conditioned to pair up and pledge eternal love. Sadly (or not), this romantic notion of love is new on the human evolution scene, for marriage has been social arrangement, then a religious one, for far longer than it has been a love union.
If we are honest with ourselves, each step of the way, we have less chances of hurting those that care for us and those we claim to love. Being honest also means the possibility of missing out on a few persons that might soothe our souls but not our fevered flesh.
As a friend to a few persons who were the cheated upon, they were often in unison in voicing how the were hurt by the violation of the word of their partners, to not screw others. As a person who is often approached by a person looking to have ‘fun, passion, etc’, I often think of my friends, who have forgiven but cannot forget.
Personally, I can only give my all to those who give their all to me. Yes, call me Tit for Tat, as if I am person number 2 or 3 on the list, then I also only give back a percentage of myself.
I would like to see more people stay single, if need be, to fulfill their lifelong fleshy dreams. I would like to see more people go into unions of all kinds, with honesty, thoughtfulness and compassion. (I have a lot of likes, obviously.)
As you mentioned, there are a lot of people on earth and to think one is enough, might be a delusion. However, in the huge crowd of people, surely there are enough we are content to still to each other, as there are those who need to sample as much hot and juicy flesh as possible.
Fingers crossed that more sorting happens, before things go tits up.
We change, as time passes. Or maybe we don’t; we just become less able to hide our needs.